A Conversation with a Non-Search-Marketer

In researching (ha, if you can call it that, and I juuuuust did) my latest post, The Problems with Marketing Search, I had a conversation with an old friend of mine who happens to match up pretty well with the profile I consider important to Microsoft right now.

The Bing initiative needs the younger, tech-savvy crowd to accept Bing, embrace it, and most importantly, recommend it via word of mouth, if MS hopes to compete with Google in search. At the end of that post I reference the conversation with the target demographic rep, who we’ll call Non-SE-guy. He’s a PhD candidate in Chemistry at the University of Waterloo, quite web savvy, the kind of guy people go to when they need help using a computer, or finding something online, but has never worked in the search industry, and even though he knows me, has likely never considered it much of an industry at all.

This is that conversation – if you work for Bing you should read this as if your very job depended upon it. If you work anywhere else, what time is it? Stop reading this junk and go back to work! I just thought it was interesting to see some perspective on search related things without the smudge of the industry all over my lens.

(authors note: proper use of language, grammar and punctuation had, prior to this conversation, been sacrificed to the gods of speed, efficiency and apathy, proportionately in that order.)

Naoise says :

Other than choosing to go to a search engine and typing in the URL or clicking a bookmark, or searching from a built-in search box in your browser or toolbar, are there any other ways you ever find your self on a search engine search results page?

Non-SE-guy says :

Just the built in search bar in Firefox… I never actually load google.com to search for anything

Naoise says :

So the chances of you ever switching to Bing are affected by the fact that you never type in a search engine URL anymore?

Non-SE-guy says :

umm ya, the only way I’d switch to Bing is if I decided to install the search plugin in Firefox

Non-SE-guy says :

I mean, it’s kind of redundant to go to the URL box and type www.google.com when I can just type whatever in the browser search box and it’ll go to Google for me… saves a step ya know?

Naoise says :

of course, say you were on a strange computer and there were no search box

Non-SE-guy says :

I do end up typing scholar.google.com a lot to search journals

Non-SE-guy says :

If I was on a strange computer with no search box, I’ve been using Google since it first started, so it’s kinda ingrained in my brain

Naoise says :

How default is Google, and how malleable do you think your searching habits are – and, what kind of things might have to happen to get you to try another engine (assuming only finding good results would keep you there after trying)

Naoise says :

Okay pretty default

Non-SE-guy says :

Yeah real default, basically because everything else is shite

Naoise says :

(remember when it wasn’t and there were real options, from webcrawler to hotbot? it was a different industry)

Non-SE-guy says :

(I’d agree with that.. I forget what I used before Google)

Naoise says :

Have you tried Bing and written it off as shite – or does part of you write it off half-automatically because it’s MS?

Non-SE-guy says :

I know Bing exists, but I haven’t actually tried it… I did try the Wolfram one out for a bit… I didn’t like it… I haven’t tried Bing because I really haven’t thought about sitting down and comparing searches with Google

Naoise says :

Because you feel there is little incentive?

Non-SE-guy says :

Mind you, I’d say most of the time the first link in Google is Wikipedia entries anyway

Naoise says :

(how long have you noticed the strong Wikipedia presence?)

Non-SE-guy says :

(oh, maybe in the past year or so?)

Non-SE-guy says :

Yes, generally I can find what I want with Google so I don’t feel like there’s an incentive to use Bing

Naoise says :

When you said ‘haven’t tried Bing because haven’t thought about sitting down and comparing searches’ – I think that’s the essence of the issue MS has in marketing Bing, it’s not a “product” in people’s minds, and so they don’t default to the behaviour of directly comparing for quality

Non-SE-guy says :

Yeah, like my reason for using a search engine is to find the answer I’m looking for, preferably within the first page of results.

Naoise says :

Right, so is it fair to say that the only time you’d use something other than Google is if you got frustrated right in the midst of the search process?

Non-SE-guy says :

Yes, I’d concur with that statement

Non-SE-guy says :

Mainly because I’m lazy and I’ve been using Google for 10 years

Naoise says :

I’m guessing you didn’t like Wolfram Alpha because it’s a different kind of search engine/process, not a general ‘find this string in the database’ type search, so if you were frustrated in a search process, would you go to WA, or Yahoo, or where would you go?

Or would you just keep refining search after search in Google, and simply not go to another engine?

Non-SE-guy says :

Umm generally I re-type the query in Google to refine the search – ooo Firefox has a Bing vs. Google comparative engine plugin!

Naoise says :

Yeah I’m sure those plug-ins are out there, I wouldn’t mind hearing your preference after a fair test, but at the moment I’m interested in what you’ve got to say because you’re the exact type of audience MS wants to affect with its marketing of Bing, and I’m trying to figure out if there is an intelligent way for them to go about reaching you.

Naoise says :

With their one hundred million dollar marketing budget….

Non-SE-guy says :

Well, as much as I say that advertising doesn’t affect me, advertising that appeals to my certain sense of humour does

Non-SE-guy says :

Like VW and Ikea commercials

Naoise says :

Do you think MS can detach the Bing brand enough to market it with humour?

Non-SE-guy says :

Those Vista commercials with Billy G and Seinfeld? a little tooooooo out there for me

Naoise says :

A lot of search-marketing people think MS shouldn’t try humour, because they’re not perceived that way to begin with, they’re serious

Non-SE-guy says :

See above… those Seinfeld commercials were meant to be funny..

Naoise says :

How about the Apple vs PC commercials?

Non-SE-guy says :

umm Apple vs. PC makes me like the PC more, since I think John Hodgman is hilarious and Justin Long should be shot

Naoise says :

I agree, my main recommendation for MS marketing Bing is to hire John Hodgman

Non-SE-guy says :

Penny Arcade did a cartoon about them.. the Seinfeld ones – http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/9/15/consensus/

Naoise says :

ahyeah? Ah… yeah, that about sums it up.

Naoise says :

So, your current guess as to Bing’s chances of taking a significant portion of Google’s search share in the next handful of years is?

Non-SE-guy says :

Well, I think they’d have to pull off a this-generation Nintendo

Naoise says :

How do you mean?

Non-SE-guy says :

Go for the soccer mom and retiree crowd and stay away from attempting to convert the computer nerds

Naoise says :

But there’s something to be said for that IT crowd (HA) affecting change by suggesting search engines to friends and family, and changing default search options for people

Naoise says :

That’s kind of how Google built up to dominance

Non-SE-guy says :

Yup

Naoise says :

Have you heard about Google caffeine?

Non-SE-guy says :

Umm vaguely.. I’ve heard of it but I don’t know what it does

Non-SE-guy says :

Is it one of their Google Labs things?

Non-SE-guy says :

or something more insidious?

Naoise says :

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/08/help-test-some-next-g…

Non-SE-guy says :

hmm that might cause issues for Bing

Non-SE-guy says :

In the sense that it might be even better than what Bing currently is

Naoise says :

Well you can be sure that’s the impression they’re trying to make – they timed the ‘release’ pretty well in terms of Bing’s acquisition of Yahoo

Naoise says :

And yet, all Google has done is write that blog post on their official blog. No marketing. A URL like www2.sandbox.google.com is purely attempting to get geeks to pass it along to geeks, it’s so blatantly non-commercial – “web developers and power searchers might notice a few differences” appeals to geeks

Non-SE-guy says :

Yup, appealing to the followers – Nintendo has managed to market the Wii in such a way that people who had probably never bought a gaming console before, bought one

Naoise says :

That’s true, but MS isn’t trying to get people to search who don’t, so much as they’re trying to get people who already search to switch, yeah?

Non-SE-guy says :

Yes, so they need to figure out how people like my mom decide to search for things, and target that

Non-SE-guy says :

I think she uses Google because I told her to

Naoise says :

YES, as i mentioned earlier, the geeks are very influential, especially to the older generation (and sorry friend, but you at least used to be a geek, and you always will be to your mom)

Non-SE-guy says :

Now, would my mom care if I suddenly went, hey mom, you should really use Bing instead of Google.. it’s the best?

Naoise says :

Maybe not, but some commercials with frustrated mothers searching, then calling their sons at college, and the sons recommending Bing, cus, you know ‘its got more suggestions and stuff to help you find stuff “it’s easy mom you’ll figure it out, Bing.com”

Non-SE-guy says :

See that could work

Naoise says :

You have to get in on the tiny bit of time – that frustrated in the middle of an unproductive search time – and own the mind share for alternatives

Non-SE-guy says :

I’d think it would be hard to have two separate ad campaigns to target the geeks and the non-geeks alike. The ads that appeal to me appeal to my sense of humour.. I think geeks love in-jokes and self-referential humour that my mom wouldn’t get. Like LOLcats and what have you.. my parent’s would not understand keyboard cat

Naoise says :

You could legitimately argue to geeks that the results are better and that MS has put some serious engineering into Bing (it’s true, and it shows in the results, so they should be proud to say it) – which would only compliment the type of ad I suggested before, directed at mom. You couldn’t have the same campaign target both, but put some commercials on WTV and some on TECHTV and you’re just doing a normal demographic marketing job

Non-SE-guy says :

You’d almost need like a John Hodgman showing amusing slides in a deadpan manner that shows the technical aspects. ooo how about Harold and Kumar, where the one guy thinks they’re going to play ping pong, and the other guy shows up with a laptop and weed because he thought it was Bing Bong?and then it would degenerate into Harold saying with traces of an accent, I said PING PONG, and Kumar goes, right, Bing Bong. Hell I’d probably laugh if I saw that commercial, though it would have to be like a web only one

Naoise says :

Ha, i don’t know if they could pull it off… well actually, yeah they could – so long as nobody puts Bill Gates or Seinfeld in it.

Non-SE-guy dit :

maybe a spoof with Sean Connery in The Hunt for Red October saying give me one Bing, instead of ping

Non-SE-guy dit :

ooo Office Space, like PC Load Letter? what the $!@% does that mean!?! oo I’ll check Bing… ahhhhjust pick out famous questions asked in well known movies in geek culture and tie in Bing – Press Any Key? Where the hell is the any key? oooh let’s ask Bing

Naoise Osborne

Naoise Osborne

A former member of the Acquisio team, Naoise was the Search Engine Marketing Director at Catalytics, the services arm of Acquisio before that was sold off so that the company could focus more on developing the Acquisio platform. In his role at Catalytics, Naoise managed SEO strategy for agencies across North America. Today, Naoise is based in Montreal where he is a founding partner of AOD Media Group Inc., which specializes in SEO, analytics and Facebook marketing.

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